准备开始当义工

I'll do it first.

Double Delight:

QUOTE:

以下是引用hppeng在2010/5/26 4:59:00的发言：
I'll do it first.

Double Delight:

呵呵，我来假的，好久没有动刀了，找不到专业雕刻刀，还好还能赶刻出来，哈哈

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

Oh My God!!!

You are really good...

[em02][em02][em02]

胡萝卜雕的花？

利害！

 

想当年为了泡妞苦练的,曾经一刀见骨,才知道尖角雕刻刀片多锋利,锥心的痛啊

QUOTE:

以下是引用JOSE在2010/5/26 9:33:00的发言：
想当年为了泡妞苦练的,曾经一刀见骨,才知道尖角雕刻刀片多锋利,锥心的痛啊

萝卜花很漂亮.小马马很喜欢胡萝卜吧?

QUOTE:

以下是引用JOSE在2010/5/26 9:33:00的发言：
想当年为了泡妞苦练的,曾经一刀见骨,才知道尖角雕刻刀片多锋利,锥心的痛啊

能问一下结果如何吗？

QUOTE:

以下是引用温柔如风在2010/5/26 20:08:00的发言：

能问一下结果如何吗？

结果当然是美滋美滋的温柔浪漫和鲜血交融，遥远的记忆，严重跑题了

QUOTE:

以下是引用花香在2010/5/26 11:45:00的发言：

萝卜花很漂亮.小马马很喜欢胡萝卜吧?

很喜欢，小马很贪吃

QUOTE:

以下是引用hppeng在2010/5/25 1:21:00的发言：
Jose,

Glad you're willing to try. This will be a very interesting and rewarding process and I'm sure you'll find lots of challenges.

I'm in the camp of free shaping and R+. I find it very rewarding and joyful, especially when my horse shows the passion to work with me. I understand people have different opinions about how we should treat animals. It is my belief that there's a better way human and animals can communicate with each other rather than just "pressure" and "release of pressure".

Here are my suggestions:

1. Read Karen Pryor's 3 books: a. Don't Shoot The Dog; b. Reaching The Animals Mind; c. Lads Before The Wind.
2. Read Alexandra Kurland's books specifically about clicker training for horses. she has 2 (or 3?) books.
3. Read some basic books talking about the operant conditioning. You need to be very sure what you're doing in scientific term. There are too many myths in animal training and lots of them are very misleading and do not stand the test of science. B.F. Skinner has some books.
4. Check out Jesus Rosale's recent researches about poisoned cue. Also some studies between jackpot and high rate of reinforcement.

If you find them logical, you'll understand why I do not like Natural Horsemanship. I hate to say things like "respect", "leadership", and "dominance" after I understand how organisms learn.

Have fun, and be safe.

HP

今天图书馆帮我调借来Karen Pryor 的 Animal Mind, 由于我们村庄的图书馆藏书量少，像这类旁门左道的书籍更是少得可怜，还有几本你推荐的响片调教书将在3至7天内到

准备开始当义工

今天才是当义工训练的第二天，就已经开始见证响片调教的奇迹，貌似小迷你马也可以不用马索亦步亦趋地紧跟我，马真贪吃，今天没带相机，明天拍个视频

先上个昨天的，手上多了个响片，怪手忙脚乱的

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/C7P8COezpiU/

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

Two comments:

1. You do not need to treat him 2~3 carrots for one click. One bite is good enough.

2. No escalation of pressure needed. I do not think you're "putting pressure" on him. Just a reminder.

Is it fun to see it stops for you when it hears the click?

Jose,

In case you have some questions about bribe and reward. Here's a good write up:

======
The bribe is offered before the behavior occurs. Whereas a reward is
offered after it occurs. In the case of a bribe, the food becomes part of
the cue resulting in being unable to get the behavior WITHOUT the food. In
the case of reward based training, the horse learns a non-food cue because
the cue and the food rewards are separated (before and after the behavior).
As such, eventually the horse can perform the task without food present at
all which is not the case with a bribe.
=====

小马真可爱！

有机会我也试试。

QUOTE:

以下是引用无缺在2010/5/27 8:27:00的发言：

小马真可爱！

有机会我也试试。

小马还很花心

[em02]

QUOTE:

以下是引用hppeng在2010/5/27 1:02:00的发言：
Two comments:

1. You do not need to treat him 2~3 carrots for one click. One bite is good enough.

2. No escalation of pressure needed. I do not think you're "putting pressure" on him. Just a reminder.

Is it fun to see it stops for you when it hears the click?

One bite is good enough？？

yes, I think everybody should try it. It's super fun and cool.

QUOTE:

以下是引用hppeng在2010/5/27 1:11:00的发言：
Jose,

In case you have some questions about bribe and reward. Here's a good write up:

======
The bribe is offered before the behavior occurs.  Whereas a reward is

offered after it occurs.  In the case of a bribe, the food becomes part
of

the cue resulting in being unable to get the behavior WITHOUT the food.
In

the case of reward based training, the horse learns a non-food cue
because

the cue and the food rewards are separated (before and after the
behavior).

As such, eventually the horse can perform the task without food present
at

all which is not the case with a bribe.

=====

sounds like the reward is the key，the bribe is not the way to go (at least in this paragraph)？

>One bite is good enough？？

Yes. I give my horse just one Big-Bite-Delight for every click. When I give him a jackpot, it is more than 10X.

Bribe is not a good way to teach a behavior, and it will eventually fail.

To confuse you more, this is another write up talking between "Bribe", Reward", and "Reinforcement".

==========

Bribes tend to happen before the behavior as a way to motivate the subject to do something. Rewards tend to happen after the behavior as mostly a thank you for the action or event. Neither have a predictable outcome towards future behavior. As trainer we should be more interested in reinforcement and that is something that gives a predictable increase in future behavior.

Forgive me for going over basic behavior terms but there are many people who may have some confusion regarding these terminologies and I don't have enough information to judge your trainers understanding on the topic. In Karen Pryor's book "Don't Shoot the Dog" she talks about a zoo situation where an ape was setting in the doorway so the door could not be closed. The trainers were putting food outside to get the ape to move but he would quickly grab the food and get back to blocking the door. It was pointed out that the food was being given before the behavior had occurred as in a bribe so they were not getting the future outcome they wanted. Once they waited for the ape to move then they give him the food it became a reinforcement and they could then shape the ape to not stay in the doorway.

Rewards and reinforcements tend to be used interchangeable but they do have different meanings. Rewards are a more general like presents for a job or an event well done and they happen after the event that is getting rewarded so it doesn't necessary have an effect on future events. Reinforcements tend to happen at the same time or directly after the event so it will more likely happen again. The click in clicker trainer is used to give better timing so the trainee ties in the event with the food or other reinforcement given. A birthday present is a reward. If I give my brother a birthday present it is not going to increase the likelihood that he will have another birthday. It's only a thank you for being my brother.

As far as if you are bribing, rewarding or reinforcing the subject it can be a bit cloudy as to what you are doing but it is how the trainee sees it that is important. Years ago I got a $1000 Christmas bonus. Because of some cash flow issues the boss gave it in November a month before Christmas. Because it was before Christmas does it make it a bribe? Was he rewarding me for the last years sales with this thank you bonus? Sales the next year did increase so it might have been a reinforcement that caused me to do even better the next year. To make things even more confusing I might have thought it was a punishment because 3 other managers also got the same bonus but I was in charge of more of the store and employs then the other 3 put together. You never know how something might get intrepid.

Bribes, rewards and reinforcement are all tools that we can use in training. As far as what is better it depends on the situation and how we use them.

>yes, I think everybody should try it. It's super fun and cool.

Thanks.

So do you have a plan about how to teach the Mini to go under Ranger? I suggest you need to train Ranger as well because asking Ranger to stand still (when the Mini is going under) is also a behavior you need to teach.